Post by F-48 on Apr 20, 2005 19:43:15 GMT -5
On another forum, this became a topic/issue. Since this forum is basically sponsored by the Formula 48 Class Owners Association aand encompasses multihulls in general, I think it fitting to make a post here for potential builders AND owners to be aware of, and recognize things that can go wrong.
I plan to answer this post in the status of being the acting Class Secretary for the Formula 48 Multihull Class Owners Association here in the U.S. Please excuse the manner in which this is posted, but I want to respond on behalf of the Class - not as a personal opinion.
As I noted in a personal post, the issue of unreliable builders is taking it's toll on the general world multihull scene.
As a Class......................
- We would like nothing better than to be able to reference new buyers and potential owners to legitimate builders where a buyer could expect a reasonable product in a reasonable amount of time - or by a promised date.
- We would support a purchasing/selling standard procedure of a minimum of 50% down payment and recommend witholding full payment until the boat is ready to ship - or until tracking numbers for shipment are available. The alternative being that the boat is built on "spec" (speculation) that someone would purchase upon it's completion when ready to sell/ship.
- Builders ( and want-to-be-builders) must educate themselves on the class, the costs, the potential for sales, etc. As a Class - we will NOT be responsible for doing YOUR research into the potential to sell/supply these boats. It is YOUR responsibility as a builder to determine the market for your products. The Class does not subsidize builders - nor do we ask for a builder's fee to support the class for each boat built or sold.
- As a builder, you must recognize that YOU are the sole source for the distribution of your products. There is no hobby shop, no organization, no network for your product distribution unless you create it yourself.
- As a builder, if you decide to hang out your "shingle" and advertise your desire to supply boats, and also if you take money to further this effort - the problems associated with your ability to perform are yours - NOT the buyer unless he fails to pay.
- Misjudging interest, or assuming numbers of interest inquiries as being potential sales is (again) your responsibility.
- Not having the time, experience,marketing, distribution, etc. is again - YOUR responsibility. If you get sick, run into financial issues, find end building costs higher than your selling cost - please don't blame that on the buyer.
- In all cases, the "builder" requested and accepted money from the buyer. The buyer sent the money in good faith, with the understanding the product would arrive as advertised in the promised time frame.
- As a Class Association, we do not feel obligated to handle legal issues, but in most countries ( certainly here in the U.S.) there are only a few basics that make up a legal contract. An "offer" to sell, and "offer" to buy, and an "agreed upon value", and finally an "exchange of product for value". (greatly paraphrased for brevity). Failure to perform is breach of contract, and of course there are legal rights and options provided for the resolution of issues.
- As of this writing, we have no indication of three of the previosuly mentioned suppliers NOT wishing to supply boats or kits. Two suppliers have notified the Class they no longer wish to be considered an international supplier. For this purpose, I would reiterate that to now, only Ernst Zeamann (Austria) and Anthony Wright (U.K.) have indicated they are no longer interested in supplying boats, hulls or kits internationally.
* Peter Birch (Australia) has not said he would no longer produce/provide boats.
* Doug Lord/MicroSail (US) continues to advertise the X3 and the F-48 multihulls from his business.
* Ian Sammis (US) has relocated to California from Kansas but has not indicated he is no longer taking orders.
Of these builders in question, Ian Sammis has produced, sold and/or delivered Class legal multihulls in the past three years, that the F-48 Class is aware of.
Given the issues surrounding current and past building, it is the responsibility of the "Buyer Beware" and it is the "Builder's" responsibility to set prices and terms/conditions for the sale (and stick to them).
You will notice that this is not just related to multihulls - but is a general consideration in any hobby/sport. People think they can do it. They want to succeed, but eventually, some are going to fail. Finger pointing, while fact, may not resolve issues, and each buyer/seller will make their own decisions and mutually agreeable methods are needed to solve issues.
Isolated incidents does not mean the hobby is full of "pirates" - but it does mean that there are some rules, some expectations, and eventually there may be legal issues. Resolving them up front is the easiest, the least messy, and will continue to reward those wanting to be a part of the hobby.
- As a Class, we continue to recommend to new owners to consider building. We continue to recommend to builders to complete a boat, and sell it from the shelf. Building one boat at a time from order has proven to be a disaster, unless you have the production facilities and know-how to make it a success and handle the orders in a timely manner when they do arrive. But one must also realize not everyone will buy a boat.
- Finally, too often, builders will short change themselves, charging too little and finding out the build was a loss. Coping with this is a problem that must also be dealt with.
Of course, as always, this forum remains open for any constructive suggestions, ideas or opinions.
I plan to answer this post in the status of being the acting Class Secretary for the Formula 48 Multihull Class Owners Association here in the U.S. Please excuse the manner in which this is posted, but I want to respond on behalf of the Class - not as a personal opinion.
As I noted in a personal post, the issue of unreliable builders is taking it's toll on the general world multihull scene.
As a Class......................
- We would like nothing better than to be able to reference new buyers and potential owners to legitimate builders where a buyer could expect a reasonable product in a reasonable amount of time - or by a promised date.
- We would support a purchasing/selling standard procedure of a minimum of 50% down payment and recommend witholding full payment until the boat is ready to ship - or until tracking numbers for shipment are available. The alternative being that the boat is built on "spec" (speculation) that someone would purchase upon it's completion when ready to sell/ship.
- Builders ( and want-to-be-builders) must educate themselves on the class, the costs, the potential for sales, etc. As a Class - we will NOT be responsible for doing YOUR research into the potential to sell/supply these boats. It is YOUR responsibility as a builder to determine the market for your products. The Class does not subsidize builders - nor do we ask for a builder's fee to support the class for each boat built or sold.
- As a builder, you must recognize that YOU are the sole source for the distribution of your products. There is no hobby shop, no organization, no network for your product distribution unless you create it yourself.
- As a builder, if you decide to hang out your "shingle" and advertise your desire to supply boats, and also if you take money to further this effort - the problems associated with your ability to perform are yours - NOT the buyer unless he fails to pay.
- Misjudging interest, or assuming numbers of interest inquiries as being potential sales is (again) your responsibility.
- Not having the time, experience,marketing, distribution, etc. is again - YOUR responsibility. If you get sick, run into financial issues, find end building costs higher than your selling cost - please don't blame that on the buyer.
- In all cases, the "builder" requested and accepted money from the buyer. The buyer sent the money in good faith, with the understanding the product would arrive as advertised in the promised time frame.
- As a Class Association, we do not feel obligated to handle legal issues, but in most countries ( certainly here in the U.S.) there are only a few basics that make up a legal contract. An "offer" to sell, and "offer" to buy, and an "agreed upon value", and finally an "exchange of product for value". (greatly paraphrased for brevity). Failure to perform is breach of contract, and of course there are legal rights and options provided for the resolution of issues.
- As of this writing, we have no indication of three of the previosuly mentioned suppliers NOT wishing to supply boats or kits. Two suppliers have notified the Class they no longer wish to be considered an international supplier. For this purpose, I would reiterate that to now, only Ernst Zeamann (Austria) and Anthony Wright (U.K.) have indicated they are no longer interested in supplying boats, hulls or kits internationally.
* Peter Birch (Australia) has not said he would no longer produce/provide boats.
* Doug Lord/MicroSail (US) continues to advertise the X3 and the F-48 multihulls from his business.
* Ian Sammis (US) has relocated to California from Kansas but has not indicated he is no longer taking orders.
Of these builders in question, Ian Sammis has produced, sold and/or delivered Class legal multihulls in the past three years, that the F-48 Class is aware of.
Given the issues surrounding current and past building, it is the responsibility of the "Buyer Beware" and it is the "Builder's" responsibility to set prices and terms/conditions for the sale (and stick to them).
You will notice that this is not just related to multihulls - but is a general consideration in any hobby/sport. People think they can do it. They want to succeed, but eventually, some are going to fail. Finger pointing, while fact, may not resolve issues, and each buyer/seller will make their own decisions and mutually agreeable methods are needed to solve issues.
Isolated incidents does not mean the hobby is full of "pirates" - but it does mean that there are some rules, some expectations, and eventually there may be legal issues. Resolving them up front is the easiest, the least messy, and will continue to reward those wanting to be a part of the hobby.
- As a Class, we continue to recommend to new owners to consider building. We continue to recommend to builders to complete a boat, and sell it from the shelf. Building one boat at a time from order has proven to be a disaster, unless you have the production facilities and know-how to make it a success and handle the orders in a timely manner when they do arrive. But one must also realize not everyone will buy a boat.
- Finally, too often, builders will short change themselves, charging too little and finding out the build was a loss. Coping with this is a problem that must also be dealt with.
Of course, as always, this forum remains open for any constructive suggestions, ideas or opinions.
